Home Charging

1719 Views 24 Replies 11 Participants Last post by RonM, 2 mo ago

RonM

Discussion Starter · 2 mo ago

All, So I have an Aryia and decided to try home charging. We are in a rental townhouse. I have purchased a 240v extension cord so that the charger reaches the car. In addition, I am using the 240V dryer plug in the house. I connected everything together and plugged it into the car. It immediately started to charge and then stopped. I looked at the controller on the charging cable, and the fault light was on. I called the dealer, but he had no idea. I checked the power inside the house, and it was fine. Any ideas?

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atreis

· #2 · 2 mo ago

Too much voltage drop due to the length of the extension cord run? You wouldn't know this just from testing the voltage, because it would be voltage drop only under load. What gauge is the extension cord? What amperage is the outlet you're plugging into? What EVSE cable are you using? (The one that came with the car?)

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DallasEV

· #3 · 2 mo ago

RonM said:
All, So I have an Aryia and decided to try home charging. We are in a rental townhouse. I have purchased a 240v extension cord so that the charger reaches the car. In addition, I am using the 240V dryer plug in the house. I connected everything together and plugged it into the car. It immediately started to charge and then stopped. I looked at the controller on the charging cable, and the fault light was on. I called the dealer, but he had no idea. I checked the power inside the house, and it was fine. Any ideas?

My guess would be the extension cord, which Nissan says not to use in the manual. While it may be rated for 240v, the Ariya would draw current for a much longer time than your dryer. The increased temperature from the extended draw might have tripped thermal protection in the cord. This is assuming it charged for a while before faulting. If it started and stopped right away, then the EVSE might be detecting the extension cord and not liking that.

If you can't install a 240v outlet in the garage, you may have to resort to level 1 charging at home and fast charging when you can.

Also, one final safety comment... not all 240v NEMA 14-50 outlets are the same. Dryers don't run as long or as hot as an EVSE, so there are plenty of reports of dryer outlets melting or catching fire from charging a car. Because of that I don't recommend plugging in to your usual dryer outlet, especially if its an older residence. You'll want a new NEMA 14-50 outlet installed (Hubble/Bryant is the brand typically recommended).

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RonM

Discussion Starter · #4 · 2 mo ago

DallasEV said:
My guess would be the extension cord, which Nissan says not to use in the manual. While it may be rated for 240v, the Ariya would draw current for a much longer time than your dryer. The increased temperature from the extended draw might have tripped thermal protection in the cord. This is assuming it charged for a while before faulting. If it started and stopped right away, then the EVSE might be detecting the extension cord and not liking that.

If you can't install a 240v outlet in the garage, you may have to resort to level 1 charging at home and fast charging when you can.

Also, one final safety comment... not all 240v NEMA 14-50 outlets are the same. Dryers don't run as long or as hot as an EVSE, so there are plenty of reports of dryer outlets melting or catching fire from charging a car. Because of that I don't recommend plugging in to your usual dryer outlet, especially if its an older residence. You'll want a new NEMA 14-50 outlet installed (Hubble/Bryant is the brand typically recommended).

Thanks for all this, lots to think about. Everything is rated for 30 amps.

Nebraskabd

· #5 · 2 mo ago

RonM said:
Thanks for all this, lots to think about. Everything is rated for 30 amps.

Rated at 30 amps for dryer, not 30 amps continuously. Dryers pull load intermittently. If you really want to charge at home, I would recommend buying a wallbox, or some other charger unit that you can set the charge to 24 amps. I installed a 50 circuit to charge at 30 amps.

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atreis

· #6 · 2 mo ago

RonM said:
Thanks for all this, lots to think about. Everything is rated for 30 amps.

The included EVSE is a 30 amp EVSE so you would be pulling right at the limit for all components. Most likely the EVSE noticed a significant voltage drop and errored. For long-lasting loads, you want to pull no more than 80% of the rated capacity of the circuit. A couple options:

You could get a 24 amp (or less) EVSE and maybe use your current setup, depending on the length and gauge of the extension cord.
Install a separate circuit capable of supplying at least 40 amps (more is better) and if it's still not close enough use a heavier gauge extension cord. 50 amp RV extension cords with 14-50 plugs aren't cheap, but are readily available.

AriyaDriver123

· #7 · 2 mo ago

I used my 30 amp dryers breaker. It works to charge as long you use a 24 amp charger. I use a 32 amp charge with 24 amp limit capability

dafish

· #8 · 2 mo ago

Ron:

Anything that runs, or could run, for over 3 hours must, by NEC code, be wired to 125% of the rated maximum load. A 30 amp EVSE requires a 40 amp circuit including wires and breaker.

As to the problem, if it occurred within say 5 minutes its almost certainly voltage drop and is probably a result of the extension cable being inadequate. If it took longer, say 30 minutes, than it's more likely a heat problem causing drop from increased resistance and could be anywhere.

BTW, voltage drop is a function of wire gauge and distance, so the longer you attempt to go the larger gauge wire you need.

Aside from those sometimes faults like this are a result of receptacle lugs not being tight enough. Easy to check right?

I charge at 24 amps and find it imperfect, but acceptable.

The 14-50 receptable FUD is largely repeated heresay. Sure, there are some issues, but any UL listed recpetacle is fine to 50 amps, or 40 amp continuous. At 30 amps its not much of an issue. What tends to happen is people get cheap on wire and then SHTF. Wire is expected to not only carry the current but act as a heat sink for receptacles and breakers Somebody sticks a plain jane 14-50 on 8-3 Romex, runs it at 50a (requires 75f equipment), and the terminations melt. Everybody wants to blame the equipment but most often its loose wire and too small a gauge of wiring. Had it been wired to 60f rated wire, terminated tightly, and run within it's specs any old Leviton or etc should not melt or etc..

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DallasEV

· #9 · 2 mo ago

dafish said:
The 14-50 receptable FUD is largely repeated heresay. Sure, there are some issues, but any UL listed recpetacle is fine to 50 amps, or 40 amp continuous. At 30 amps its not much of an issue. What tends to happen is people get cheap on wire and then SHTF. Wire is expected to not only carry the current but act as a heat sink for receptacles and breakers Somebody sticks a plain jane 14-50 on 8-3 Romex, runs it at 50a (requires 75f equipment), and the terminations melt. Everybody wants to blame the equipment but most often its loose wire and too small a gauge of wiring. Had it been wired to 60f rated wire, terminated tightly, and run within it's specs any old Leviton or etc should not melt or etc..

Dafish, I hope you're correct. When the electrician did my Tesla's setup, I noted he didn't use the industrial grade Hubbell/Bryant outlet, but went with middle of the road Cooper. When I got the second circuit for the Ariya, the electrician again used middle of the road Legrand Pass and Seymour. It could be they don't carry the consumer grade Levitons, or they simply wanted more margin for error/safety.

This has been discussed to death on the Tesla forums, so I don't think its all FUD.

teslamotorsclub.com

Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide

Comparing the 2 outlets recommended by Tesla with the sub $10 big box model as well as the one I think you should buy 1. Hubbell 9450a 2. Bryant 9450fr 3. Cooper 5754n 4. Leviton 279-S00 The Hubbell and Bryant are far and away the superior product here and since Hubbell owns Bryant and these...

teslamotorsclub.com

MrSteve007

· #10 · 2 mo ago

99% chance it’s the extension cord. Even with the 120v charger on my Leaf, if I wasn’t using a giant honking gauge extension cord, the charger would give an error light due to the drop in voltage when the car attempts to pull current. It’s very sensitive, so the car doesn’t draw too much current upstream and melts something.

smario259

· #11 · 2 mo ago

I hope that someday someone will hack the EVSE and tell us all how to program or modify the EVSE to draw less current than the maximum allowed by the J1772 specs, that the Nissan EVSE uses by default. Usually, only a resistor change or a switch setting would allow to lower the current used by the car while charging. Many home chargers do have some rotary switch to decide what current we want to send to the car, allowing the use of more standard cabling like the one used for dryers, which is around 24 amps, instead of 32. 60Kwh over a night is more than okay for me, for a home charger, but I an forced to do the bigger wiring. I am not happy about this.

dafish

· #12 · 2 mo ago

Dallas:

I ran 24 amps on a 30 amp circuit terminated on a generic 14-50 from Lowes for a month until I converted to a wall charger. The wire leaving the panel would get a tiny bit above skin temp, but nothing for consideration. The EVSE cable would do the same, but that's it. Nothing hot, nothing of any interest at the receptacle. Nor should it have been. Now if I was plugging it in and out daily then I can see potential, but otherwise I'm sticking to "a UL listed product operated within it's limits and installed correctly is not only safe, it has considerable safety margins".

BTW, none of that applies to some chinese part ordered on Amazon. Not that some chinese parts aren't perfectly safe, but there is a "buyer beware" component there.

dafish

· #13 · 2 mo ago

smario259 said:
I hope that someday someone will hack the EVSE and tell us all how to program or modify the EVSE to draw less current than the maximum allowed by the J1772 specs, that the Nissan EVSE uses by default. Usually, only a resistor change or a switch setting would allow to lower the current used by the car while charging. Many home chargers do have some rotary switch to decide what current we want to send to the car, allowing the use of more standard cabling like the one used for dryers, which is around 24 amps, instead of 32. 60Kwh over a night is more than okay for me, for a home charger, but I an forced to do the bigger wiring. I am not happy about this.

That's unlikely, if not impossible within the factory EVSE. The OBC calls for the current it wants up to the capability the EVSE announces it has during negotiation, if you will, with the OBC. Aside from various safety signaling, the most salient EVSE component of that is the "pilot signal" that announces to the OBC it's capability. Only an EVSE capable of reporting different pilots signal (really all that's needed) can do as you've suggested. Importantly, nothing else is needed, the OBC will, has to, only draw that amount of current. Worse, if you stuck a resistor in their the car is only going to try to draw more current and you're going to start burnning things up.

Point then is it's nothing like you've thought above. No resistor, no decision, etc. The EVSE is not even the smart component. That's the OBC. This is why some cars with more advanced BMS offer the ability to do things like charge to certain limits, offer departure scheduling, and allow user selectable charge currents. It's all in the car.

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BLACK-PREMERE

· #14 · 2 mo ago

2

RonM said:
Thanks for all this, lots to think about. Everything is rated for 30 amps.

These are the tools I use to charge at home:

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Splitvolt 24 Amp Splitter Switch - Save Thousands on Home Electric Vehicle Charging (EV) Install, cETLus Certified, Charge Two EVs, Plug and Play (NEMA 10-30, 240V) : Appliances

Amazon.com: Splitvolt 24 Amp Splitter Switch - Save Thousands on Home Electric Vehicle Charging (EV) Install, cETLus Certified, Charge Two EVs, Plug and Play (NEMA 10-30, 240V) : Appliances

www.amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Splitvolt Level 2 Portable EV Charger (24 Amp, 220-240 Volt, 26ft Cable), Electric Vehicle Charger Plug-in EV Charging Station with NEMA 14-30, J1772 Plug, (Fastest 30 Amp Circuit NEC-Safe Charging) : Automotive

Buy Splitvolt Level 2 Portable EV Charger (24 Amp, 220-240 Volt, 26ft Cable), Electric Vehicle Charger Plug-in EV Charging Station with NEMA 14-30, J1772 Plug, (Fastest 30 Amp Circuit NEC-Safe Charging): Automotive - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

You can get the charger with a 26ft cord.. I have a NEMA 10-30 (30AMP 3 PRONG) old school plug.. you more than likely have a NEMA 14-30 or 14-50 but that does not matter.. both these units come in multiple configurations.
And they work GREAT together.. 24 amps is the most you want to pull on a 30 amp circuit.

Light Product Gadget Input device Peripheral

What's nice about the splitvolt is that it has it's own circuit breaker built in and you can track kwh, voltage etc right there on the built-in screen..

Consider upgrading your outlet as well to a "Commerical" outlet to handle the draw and not overheat..
I swear by Hubbell:
Hubbell Wiring Device-Kellems 50 A, Industrial, Receptacle, Black, No Tamper Resistant HBL9450A - 1 Each (amazon.com)

Camera lens Camera accessory Cameras & optics Gadget Digital camera

Also, get a torque screwdriver and be sure to clamp those wires down to 25in-lbs.
This will solve your fault-codes. If... 26ft is enough to reach your vehicle without the use of extension cords.

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smario259

· #15 · 2 mo ago

dafish said:
the most salient EVSE component of that is the "pilot signal" that announces to the OBC it's capability.

This is what I meant to work on, without going into details. Depending on the circuitry used to generate the pilot, either a resistor change (analog) or a switch setting (digital) will change the duty cycle on the pilot signal, which tells the car its max amperage. I've seen chargers with no option to change the power to lower settings, with the dip switch of the variable output version being replaced by a piece of wire to have a single setting. If my EVSE smokes (hopefully never), for sure I will dig into this possibility.

RonM

Discussion Starter · #16 · 2 mo ago

UPDATE. So, thanks to this group, I may have solved my home charging issue. I had issues with a 30 amp outlet, on a 30 amp extension cable not working with the charger that came with the car. The suggestion was to buy a different changer on a lower voltage. Made perfect sense and I bought a charge with selectable voltage. It worked perfectly on 24V, so I tried it on 32V and it also worked! So, either the charger that cam with the vehicle is bad or its just super sensitive to the voltage. Bottom line, with new charger I am able to charge at 32V with an extension cord. Thank you.

Nebraskabd

· #17 · 2 mo ago

RonM said:
UPDATE. So, thanks to this group, I may have solved my home charging issue. I had issues with a 30 amp outlet, on a 30 amp extension cable not working with the charger that came with the car. The suggestion was to buy a different changer on a lower voltage. Made perfect sense and I bought a charge with selectable voltage. It worked perfectly on 24V, so I tried it on 32V and it also worked! So, either the charger that cam with the vehicle is bad or its just super sensitive to the voltage. Bottom line, with new charger I am able to charge at 32V with an extension cord. Thank you.

I maybe paranoid but I recommend checking for how warm everything is (plugs, cable, etc) after 1to 2 hrs of charging to make sure nothing is getting too hot.

Reactions: 1

RonM

Discussion Starter · #18 · 2 mo ago

Nebraskabd said:
I maybe paranoid but I recommend checking for how warm everything is (plugs, cable, etc) after 1 to 2 hrs of charging to make sure nothing is getting too hot.

You are not paranoid, I was ( and will be) as well. I charged it for 4 hours on 32V and everything was cool to the touch. If I have the time I will downgrade to 24V. Only plan on using it when I am working from home and awake.

Reactions: 1

dafish

· #19 · 2 mo ago

Ron, I believe you mean to be saying 24 and 32A (amps), not volts. No biggy, just helping you use the right language so you don't engrain the wrong things.

PSM

· #20 · 2 mo ago

Is it okay to use EVSE came with Ariya for home charging all the time ?

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