[ravi295]

How, I want to explain
Before Biden signs this week's new bill...if Nissan can create Binding Agreement for the existing...reservation holders...still we can get $7500 ev tax credits
Already Rivian and Fisker EV manufacturers...preparing the Binding Purchase agreements. What it means, part of deposit we paid will go to sale agreement, with that we can as usual, claim our $7500 tax credit, in 2023 taxes.
So, Nissan should, wake-up and help for 2022 delivery holders, existing. First 25000 reservation holders..to get $7500...existing EV tax credit
This is possible...I am in first 1000 members Ariya reservation list. Nissan USA...do something, we don't want to loose $7500 tax credit
We hope, Nissan such a big corporate giant, will be watching these developments, try to work out solution, just like other Fiskars and Rivian EV manufacture's

 

[Messy Lizard]

How, I want to explain
Before Biden signs this week's new bill...if Nissan can create Binding Agreement for the existing...reservation holders...still we can get $7500 ev tax credits
Already Rivian and Fisker EV manufacturers...preparing the Binding Purchase agreements. What it means, part of deposit we paid will go to sale agreement, with that we can as usual, claim our $7500 tax credit, in 2023 taxes.
So, Nissan should, wake-up and help for 2022 delivery holders, existing. First 25000 reservation holders..to get $7500...existing EV tax credit
This is possible...I am in first 1000 members Ariya reservation list. Nissan USA...do something, we don't want to loose $7500 tax credit
We hope, Nissan such a big corporate giant, will be watching these developments, try to work out solution, just like other Fiskars and Rivian EV manufacture's

You forgot the most important part. The “ new “ ev tax credit, in the inflation reduction act. Only goes into effect AFTER January 1 2023. It does now effect any purchases in 2022.

 

[jag]

You forgot the most important part. The “ new “ ev tax credit, in the inflation reduction act. Only goes into effect AFTER January 1 2023. It does now effect any purchases in 2022.

Not entirely true. The effective date of the IRA will be the date Biden signs the bill, which is expected to be weekend of 8/13. See the other forum "
Manchin's vote now enables $1.9T Build Back Better bill to become law. Why this sucks for Nissan (and us!)
The latest is...

 

[petulantbeard]

I just got a call from my dealer for the same reason.

 

[belliott]

I just received the agreement from Nissan. Signed and returned - hopeful that this will work for us.

 

[falcionialan]

Anyone else concerned about the phrase "a binding legal contract between the customer and Nissan of North America."? I'm assuming this means, at worse, I might lose my $500 deposit in the unlikely event that I change my mind. I placed my reservation on day #1 and have a low reservation number, but I ordered the Platinum+ which will be assembled last. The rep at the Pomona CA drive event said I should expect to see the car in December/January. I suspect February/March is more realistic. This $7500 issue could be a deal breaker.

 

[Moonchic]

Also concerned about this which is why I haven’t signed yet. If it’s a “binding agreement” that implies some penalty for not moving forward with the purchase.

 

[ab13]

Anyone else concerned about the phrase "a binding legal contract between the customer and Nissan of North America."? I'm assuming this means, at worse, I might lose my $500 deposit in the unlikely event that I change my mind. I placed my reservation on day #1 and have a low reservation number, but I ordered the Platinum+ which will be assembled last. The rep at the Pomona CA drive event said I should expect to see the car in December/January. I suspect February/March is more realistic. This $7500 issue could be a deal breaker.

My thinking is that it didn't define any penalty, so I don't see how they can enforce any loss if not stated.

 

[ab13]

Also concerned about this which is why I haven’t signed yet. If it’s a “binding agreement” that implies some penalty for not moving forward with the purchase.

The reason why it's a binding contract is due to the wording in the IRA legislation. "Binding contract to purchase" however no penalty is listed. Considering they would rather sell the car off the lot to non reservation buyers, they wouldn't have trouble selling one someone didn't buy.

"(1) after December 31, 2021, and before the date
2 of enactment of this Act, purchased, or entered into
3 a written binding contract to purchase, a new quali-
4 fied plug-in electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in
5 section 30D(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of
6 1986, as in effect on the day before the date of enact-
7 ment of this Act), and
8 (2) placed such vehicle in service on or after the
9 date of enactment of this Act,
10 such taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form
11 and manner, as the Secretary of the Treasury, or the Sec-
12 retary’s delegate, may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as
13 having been placed in service on the day before the date
14 of enactment of this Act."

 

[kraanbalk]

Not a lawyer, but I don’t think you have much to worry about with the “binding legal agreement” language. Perhaps Nissan could keep the deposit but it would look bad because they originally promised it was refundable. Also, if you choose not to buy then I’m sure they will have no problem selling to a non-reservation holder at full MSRP.

 

[ab13]

Not a lawyer, but I don’t think you have much to worry about with the “binding legal agreement” language. Perhaps Nissan could keep the deposit but it would look bad because they originally promised it was refundable. Also, if you choose not to buy then I’m sure they will have no problem selling to a non-reservation holder at full MSRP.

The interesting part of the wording is
"to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of this Act"

Because if it is signed in 2022, it means the tax credit would be taken for 2022 tax year, even if vehicle comes in early 2023. If your vehicle comes after tax day then you'd need an extension to wait for the VIN.

 

[Messy Lizard]

The interesting part of the wording is
"to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of this Act"

Because if it is signed in 2022, it means the tax credit would be taken for 2022 tax year, even if vehicle comes in early 2023. If your vehicle comes after tax day then you'd need an extension to wait for the VIN.

One would think you could just file for the rebate in the next tax year. Like an amended tax return.

 

[ab13]

One would think you could just file for the rebate in the next tax year. Like an amended tax return.

It's actually an advantage for people getting the car in early 2023 since they could file a year earlier.

 

[RBednar]

[Neither a lawyer or tax accountant]. Here's my understandings about getting an EV tax credit in 2022 OR 2023, assuming you have reserved an Ariya and have signed Nissan's binding agreement before the Inflation Reduction Act was signed into law; thus you are under the ORIGINAL EV tax credit rules:

Situation #1: You receive YOUR Ariya in 2022 BEFORE the total sales of Leafs and delivered Ariya's exceed 200,000 units.
Result #1: You WILL be eligible to receive the full $7,500 tax credit PROVIDED THAT you have a 2022 tax liability of at least $7,500. [PROVISO: The tax credit is deducted from one's tax liability, BUT one does NOT receive any refundable tax credit if one's tax liability doesn't exceed the tax credit. And, any excess tax credit is NOT carried over into 2023. Excess tax credit would, therefore, be LOST.]

Situation #2: You receive YOUR Ariya in 2023 BEFORE the total sales of Leafs and delivered Ariya's exceed 200,000 units.
Result #2: You would be eligible for the full $7,500 tax credit against your 2023 taxes, PROVIDED THAT you have a 2023 tax liability of at least $7,500. [Same PROVISO as above.]

Situation #3: You receive YOUR Ariya BEFORE April 1, 2023 and AFTER the total sales of Leafs and delivered Ariya's have exceeded 200,000 units.
Result #3: The tax credit has entered its phase-out state, and you would be eligible for only a $3,750 tax credit. [Same PROVISO as above.]

Situation #4: You receive YOUR Ariya AFTER April 1, 2023 and AFTER the total sales of Leafs and delivered Ariya's have exceeded 200,000 units.
Result #4: The tax credit is entirely phased out after April 1st, so you would receive NO tax credit for 2023.

Can a tax accountant correct these situations and results if I understand them incorrectly?

 

[jag]

[Neither a lawyer or tax accountant]. Here's my understandings about getting an EV tax credit in 2022 OR 2023, assuming you have reserved an Ariya and have signed Nissan's binding agreement before the Inflation Reduction Act was signed into law; thus you are under the ORIGINAL EV tax credit rules:

Situation #1: You receive YOUR Ariya in 2022 BEFORE the total sales of Leafs and delivered Ariya's exceed 200,000 units.
Result #1: You WILL be eligible to receive the full $7,500 tax credit PROVIDED THAT you have a 2022 tax liability of at least $7,500. [PROVISO: The tax credit is deducted from one's tax liability, BUT one does NOT receive any refundable tax credit if one's tax liability doesn't exceed the tax credit. And, any excess tax credit is NOT carried over into 2023. Excess tax credit would, therefore, be LOST.]

Situation #2: You receive YOUR Ariya in 2023 BEFORE the total sales of Leafs and delivered Ariya's exceed 200,000 units.
Result #2: You would be eligible for the full $7,500 tax credit against your 2023 taxes, PROVIDED THAT you have a 2023 tax liability of at least $7,500. [Same PROVISO as above.]

Situation #3: You receive YOUR Ariya BEFORE April 1, 2023 and AFTER the total sales of Leafs and delivered Ariya's have exceeded 200,000 units.
Result #3: The tax credit has entered its phase-out state, and you would be eligible for only a $3,750 tax credit. [Same PROVISO as above.]

Situation #4: You receive YOUR Ariya AFTER April 1, 2023 and AFTER the total sales of Leafs and delivered Ariya's have exceeded 200,000 units.
Result #4: The tax credit is entirely phased out after April 1st, so you would receive NO tax credit for 2023.

Can a tax accountant correct these situations and results if I understand them incorrectly?

My preliminary understanding (not a tax accountant but playing one) ...
a. Need a binding commitment dated before 8/16/22 (new law enactment date) for all your scenarios. If No, STOP. If yes,
b. At date of delivery (can be 2022 or 2023), are Nissan EV sales still below 200,000 limit under old law. If Yes, up to $7,500 tax credit (If no, lower phase-out $ amount) to be taken on the 2022 tax return. This is because the car is assumed to be placed-in-service in calendar year 2022 per the new law. If your car arrives after April 15, 2023 and above condition is still true, then either take an extension to file your 2022 tax return OR file by 4/15/23 and later amend it.
I expect additional IRS or Treasury guidance on this by 12/31/22.

 

[kraanbalk]

I believe the 200,000 car limit is moot. That program has officially ended. As of today, any future Leaf purchases will not be part of the old program and thus will not count toward the 200k. Assuming the Leaf was build in the US, a purchase today would receive the full $7,500 but from the NEW program.

 

[jag]

I believe the 200,000 car limit is moot. That program has officially ended. As of today, any future Leaf purchases will not be part of the old program and thus will not count toward the 200k. Assuming the Leaf was build in the US, a purchase today would receive the full $7,500 but from the NEW program.

I believe, for the "transition phase" with binding commitments prior to 8/16/22, the 200,000 car limit rule will still apply. That is one reason, the Chevy Bolt folks are upset, because their cars delivered in 2022 get no tax credit (GM exceeded 200,000 EV sales) but the Bolt sold after 1/1/23 may get some tax credit under the new law.

 

[RBednar]

My preliminary understanding (not a tax accountant but playing one) ...
a. Need a binding commitment dated before 8/16/22 (new law enactment date) for all your scenarios. If No, STOP. If yes,
b. At date of delivery (can be 2022 or 2023), are Nissan EV sales still below 200,000 limit under old law. If Yes, up to $7,500 tax credit (If no, lower phase-out $ amount) to be taken on the 2022 tax return. This is because the car is assumed to be placed-in-service in calendar year 2022 per the new law. If your car arrives after April 15, 2023 and above condition is still true, then either take an extension to file your 2022 tax return OR file by 4/15/23 and later amend it.
I expect additional IRS or Treasury guidance on this by 12/31/22.

 

[RBednar]

Interesting question to be answered by IRS: If I have a binding agreement for a Platinum+, but the car is delivered (and paid for) in 2023, do I ask for a 2022 tax credit or a 2023 tax credit? Because actual PURCHASE/PAYMENT occurred in 2023, how can it be "assumed to placed in service in calendar year 2022"? (Can you point to that explanation somewhere on the web or an IRS document?). Hmmm... I suppose all this will be made clear by IRS by December 31, 2022.

 

[dafish]

I'm in almost total agreement with JAG. My one exception:

Since the language states I'm allowed to treat the vehicle as if it was placed in service "on or before the date of enactment", I see no way I can be denied the $7,500 credit based on volume. This as they most certainly have not passed it as of that date.

Mind you this is moot. I don't see them passing 200k before all ours are delivered. We've only 10k units, and from the atitudes I've seen here I suspect it's lower now.