No true one pedal driving on the Ariya?!

14358 Views 65 Replies 23 Participants Last post by faciennegraham, 5 mo ago

ghengeveld

Discussion Starter · Apr 17, 2022

I have a 2018 Leaf and recently ordered the Ariya because it matches my requirements, I love the looks and I'm very happy with the Leaf.

After watching the various first drive reviews, one thing really baffled me: e-Pedal has creep on the Ariya. That's a regression compared to the Leaf because it means the Ariya can't actually do one pedal driving. Why even call it e-Pedal then?!

I really really hope Nissan will allow us to disable creep using a software setting (like it is on my brother's Polestar 2) because I absolutely love one pedal driving. It's like they didn't even consider their existing customer base when designing the Ariya.

Absolutely ridiculous, I'm considering cancelling the order.

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Nissan79

· #2 · Apr 17, 2022

Hopefully Nissan is harvesting this forum (and the web) for user feedback like this. You're definitely not the first to mention that this issue alone, is enough to make you look elsewhere for your next EV. Alongside the continued delays, Nissan is making very questionable decisions about the Ariya that continue to make me question my brand allegiance. Nobody asked for a motorized centered glove compartment/laptop bench; plenty of people are asking for one-pedal. The automated center console is another odd one - and I have still yet to find any reviewer who has shown if the console position (or the 'laptop bench') is tied to the seat position memory preset system, which is the only good reason I can think of for the added cost/complexity of motorized interior gadgets. Maybe in Japan those odd features will translate to incremental sales - in the US, it's doubtful. The more I see/read/hear about the Ariya, the more I think it is a car designed for a very specific Japanese audience, but is being sold in other regions almost regrettably. This worked for the JDM masterpieces of yesteryear, like the Skyline R32... but with the continuously expanding pallete of other great EV choices available today in NA, I doubt that anyone thinks the Ariya will be the next Skyline.
My biggest problem of all though, is the complete silence from Nissan North America about the US rollout. I stopped by my dealer again this weekend to ask about details. Nothing, and no indication of when we'll have any information. Someone else here said they believed the AWD's won't hit the US market until summer of '23 (yes more than a year from now). I totally agree - and of course that's a non-starter. If that ends up happening, I'm sorry to say at that point Nissan/Mitsubishi will both be dead brands and an anchor around Renault's neck.

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ghengeveld

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 17, 2022 (Edited)

I'm in Europe and my Ariya is supposed to arrive end of August / early September, but hearing this I have sincere doubts. When I first saw the Ariya in the showroom ("roadshow") they told me July would be doable, but that quickly slipped to end of August when I actually placed the order.

I'm not too keen on the motorized center console and glovebox either, but happy that the armrest is moveable. Didn't need to be motorized necessarily. However, according to the spec sheet I got from the dealership, it actually does have memory, so in that regard it makes sense. The motorized glovebox is supposedly to keep stuff locked away since it can only be opened when the car is switched on. Probably can easily be forced open though. I think it's funny they say it can be used as a desk even though it doesn't seem to be able to hold a normal sized laptop. It wouldn't be in a workable position anyway.

On the subject of annoyances, I'm not thrilled about the position of the charging port. I understand it's positioned to be towards the sidewalk. That might be convenient if the charging station is there, but in practice it's typically in between two parking spaces, in which case it doesn't really matter on which side of the car it is. I personally will likely find it annoying to have to walk around the car to connect it, especially since my home charging station in my driveway isn't on that side. Oh well, at least I won't have to charge it as often anymore.

There's plenty of opportunity to piss on the Ariya like that, but all in all I still feel like it's a solid offering. For me that mostly comes down to the looks and it's 360° top down display. Most other brands either don't have it (Tesla) or only on the highest trim levels (Hyundai, Kia). If Nissan actually hold true to its promise of having a good stable fast charging curve, I think that actually beats the Hyundai/Kia system in the real world, like the Audi E-tron does (which is the best I've seen thus far). Good luck finding a charger that actually does 200kW.

Another big plus is the Ariya comes with a sunroof that actually opens and has a sunshade. What use is a sunroof you won't see as a driver, doesn't provide a nice breeze, but does allow for sunburn? Looking at you Tesla.

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DJP

· #4 · Apr 18, 2022

ghengeveld said:
I really really hope Nissan will allow us to disable creep using a software setting (like it is on my brother's Polestar 2) because I absolutely love one pedal driving. It's like they didn't even consider their existing customer base when designing the Ariya.

Yes, not very well thought through. In the Leaf if you want to coast just use the B setting. e-Pedal not bringing you to a full stop could be a deal breaker for me, too. I wonder if the new version of e-Pedal will hold the car on a slope after the car stops.

ghengeveld

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 18, 2022

Yeah, stop and hold would be the least I expect, even if you have to manually brake to engage it. I really don't like continuously pressing on the brake while waiting for a traffic light.

Barry Caceres

· #6 · Apr 18, 2022

I had the same reaction in a previous post. I test drove the Volkswagen ID.4 and loved how it looked but hated how it drove. Not only was its power curve somehow tuned to make it behave more like an ICE vehicle with more gradual acceleration, the regenerative braking was not aggressive enough and the vehicle would not come to a complete stop. It felt like they were building the car in a way that they would not scare off people migrating from ICE vehicles.

So I test drove the EV6 and the dealers had insane "market adjustment" markups on them. So I decided since I love how my Nissan Leaf drives that I would just order the Ariya and wait since Nissan understands how an electric car should drive (and stop with e-Pedal). When I saw those "first drive" videos with the prototype Euro versions I started shopping the Mustang Mach-E and Kia EV6 again -- trying to find ways to get them at MSRP. I currently have a late Mach-E order for the "Select" trim (since Premium was sold out) and I worked with a dealer in Colorado that said he would order me an EV6 at MSRP, but it could be months before it arrived (no different than the Mach-E in that regard).

In all the reviews I saw to the "first drive" there was not one reviewer who was "pleasantly surprised" that the vehicle maintained "creep" or "crawl" or "idling forward" or whatever you call it with e-Pedal engaged. They either did not test or notice it OR they were disappointed if they did notice it. Nobody who has driven an EV for more than a week wants it to behave like an ICE vehicle. Why Nissan has not figured that out after over a decade of selling the Leaf is beyond me.

The kicker in all this is that if you prefer the driving characteristics of an ICE vehicle then simply turn off e-Pedal -- problem solved. You can even turn it off and on whenever you want to change it because the button is right there within reach (no settings screen to dig into). Suppose you like creep mode in a parking garage.... just turn off e-Pedal when you enter the garage. But the more I researched it, I found videos regarding "e-Pedal Step" and more from Nissan's ePower division discussing the electrification of all their vehicles -- both of which referenced having to apply positive brake pressure to bring the vehicle to a complete stop.

In this first video Nissan explains how to use "e-Pedal Step" two-pedal driving:

In this second video Nissan explains their hybrid drivetrain. At the 2:05 minute mark read the text at the bottom of the screen regarding a complete stop:

My personal take is that they either have an executive or some small customer set who does not understand one-pedal driving who provided feedback (or both) and somehow that got magnified within the company to the point where they thought having the vehicle creep/crawl with e-Pedal engaged was a feature. I will not be a customer if this is how Ariya drives. I feel like this is like selling milkshakes to customers and no longer offering whipped cream on top because a few of the customers complained that they could not see what flavor they were getting through the whipped topping.

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EarlyEVadopter

· #7 · Apr 20, 2022

ghengeveld said:
I have a 2018 Leaf and recently ordered the Ariya because it matches my requirements, I love the looks and I'm very happy with the Leaf.

After watching the various first drive reviews, one thing really baffled me: e-Pedal has creep on the Ariya. That's a regression compared to the Leaf because it means the Ariya can't actually do one pedal driving. Why even call it e-Pedal then?!

I really really hope Nissan will allow us to disable creep using a software setting (like it is on my brother's Polestar 2) because I absolutely love one pedal driving. It's like they didn't even consider their existing customer base when designing the Ariya.

Absolutely ridiculous, I'm considering cancelling the order.

Since this is an SUV and not a passenger car, I can only suspect that Nissan could be concerned that owners will drive this car in less than ideal conditions where they would never attempt to drive a Leaf. That said driving in snow and ice with a fully employed e-pedal could have catastrophic results. I watched a Rivian r1t video review with a well seasoned driver Kyle Connor at the wheel (Out of Spec reviews) as he was going downhill in the snow and he hadn’t considered turning off full regen. Needless to say that scenario completely caught him off guard as he quickly realized he needed accelerate to recover after heading into a slide. Not sure if all drivers would react to accelerate down hill when in a slide as that move may be counterintuitive for many drivers.

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Barry Caceres

· #8 · Apr 20, 2022

EarlyEVadopter said:
Since this is an SUV and not a passenger car, I can only suspect that Nissan could be concerned that owners will drive this car in less than ideal conditions where they would never attempt to drive a Leaf. That said driving in snow and ice with a fully employed e-pedal could have catastrophic results. I watched a Rivian r1t video review with a well seasoned driver Kyle Connor at the wheel (Out of Spec reviews) as he was going downhill in the snow and he hadn’t considered turning off full regen. Needless to say that scenario completely caught him off guard as he quickly realized he needed accelerate to recover after heading into a slide. Not sure if all drivers would react to accelerate down hill when in a slide as that move may be counterintuitive for many drivers.

They would still have that same problem with "e-Pedal Step" since it still decelerates, but only to 6mph.

EarlyEVadopter

· #9 · Apr 20, 2022

Probably a question for Nissan engineering……will regen disengage if the power wheels lock up on ice or snow?

Barry Caceres

· #10 · Apr 20, 2022

ghengeveld said:
I'm not too keen on the motorized center console and glovebox either, but happy that the armrest is moveable. Didn't need to be motorized necessarily. However, according to the spec sheet I got from the dealership, it actually does have memory, so in that regard it makes sense. The motorized glovebox is supposedly to keep stuff locked away since it can only be opened when the car is switched on. Probably can easily be forced open though. I think it's funny they say it can be used as a desk even though it doesn't seem to be able to hold a normal sized laptop. It wouldn't be in a workable position anyway.

So good news that the center console is tied to the driver seat memory. As far as the center glovebox it looks way small and not at all like a "laptop desk". It also looks really flimsy whenever somebody grabs the top in a video. I think I would pop it open and just fit a bag of snacks or candy there for road trips so both front-seat passengers can reach it. There is supposedly a second glovebox on the passenger side that is NOT motorized (like a standard glove box).

ghengeveld said:
On the subject of annoyances, I'm not thrilled about the position of the charging port. I understand it's positioned to be towards the sidewalk. That might be convenient if the charging station is there, but in practice it's typically in between two parking spaces, in which case it doesn't really matter on which side of the car it is. I personally will likely find it annoying to have to walk around the car to connect it, especially since my home charging station in my driveway isn't on that side. Oh well, at least I won't have to charge it as often anymore.

Passenger-side charging port is crazy to me. I thought the Leaf had it best at the top-front of the car rather than the front-front of the car. Drove a Kia Niro EV and I had to park further away from the garage wall to make sure I could maneuver the charger in there. The Leaf was always super easy because while also at the front it also faces up, not forward. Passenger side is going to mean backing the vehicle in to charge it because of my charger being positioned on the other side of the garage (because most electrics put it there). On another note the EV6 has a really odd position for the charging port.

ghengeveld said:
Another big plus is the Ariya comes with a sunroof that actually opens and has a sunshade. What use is a sunroof you won't see as a driver, doesn't provide a nice breeze, but does allow for sunburn? Looking at you Tesla.

Mustang Mach-E Premium has the same problem as Tesla and I live in the dessert. It gets up to 115F in the summer here. My brother-in-law touched his glass roof in his model 3 and had to pull away because it was so hot. The EV6 and the Ariya are the only two EV's I see offering sunroofs that open for air. Those glass roofs look nice, but I am betting the Mach-E Select without it is more practical.

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EarlyEVadopter

· #11 · Apr 20, 2022

Barry Caceres said:
So good news that the center console is tied to the driver seat memory. As far as the center glovebox it looks way small and not at all like a "laptop desk". It also looks really flimsy whenever somebody grabs the top in a video. I think I would pop it open and just fit a bag of snacks or candy there for road trips so both front-seat passengers can reach it. There is supposedly a second glovebox on the passenger side that is NOT motorized (like a standard glove box).

Passenger-side charging port is crazy to me. I thought the Leaf had it best at the top-front of the car rather than the front-front of the car. Drove a Kia Niro EV and I had to park further away from the garage wall to make sure I could maneuver the charger in there. The Leaf was always super easy because while also at the front it also faces up, not forward. Passenger side is going to mean backing the vehicle in to charge it because of my charger being positioned on the other side of the garage (because most electrics put it there). On another note the EV6 has a really odd position for the charging port.

Mustang Mach-E Premium has the same problem as Tesla and I live in the dessert. It gets up to 115F in the summer here. My brother-in-law touched his glass roof in his model 3 and had to pull away because it was so hot. The EV6 and the Ariya are the only two EV's I see offering sunroofs that open for air. Those glass roofs look nice, but I am betting the Mach-E Select without it is more practical.

Re: motorized glove box + the value of having a second glove box. I actually appreciate that there are two glove boxes in the Ariya. I will use one for non-valuables and the motorized for temporary storage of valuables. Once the motorized box is closed it will be a quick way to store a checkbook, phone, passport etc. without the agony of later wondering if I locked it or not. Of course I would never leave any valuables in there for long periods, but at least it will keep those items out of sight and possibly deter quick enter/grab type theft. In my opinion the Ariya motorized box also offers a much better solution for securing small valuables than the Tesla Model Y offers. The Model Y opens the glove box only by accessing the front touchscreen tablet. So Tesla owners shouldn’t store the owners manual in the glove box to research solutions if the screen goes dark …….it happens.

Barry Caceres

· #12 · Apr 20, 2022

So I did my weekly chat session with Ariya pre-sales support (accessed from the nissanusa.com Ariya reservation page). I asked once again if they had information on the e-Pedal system and if there is a "full stop / no creep" option. Nissan North America has not yet provided that information to their pre-sales support staff. The support representative was very helpful and tried to get me what I wanted to know, but Nissan is not being transparent about it even though the vehicle is already in production.

Paul Henry X-Ray

· #13 · Apr 21, 2022

ghengeveld said:
Another big plus is the Ariya comes with a sunroof that actually opens and has a sunshade. What use is a sunroof you won't see as a driver, doesn't provide a nice breeze, but does allow for sunburn? Looking at you Tesla.

There’s MY dealbreaker. Unshaded fixed glass roof = useless IMO. Like Barry, I also make my home in the desert, and my sunroof is open 8-9 months of the year.

DJP

· #14 · Apr 21, 2022

EarlyEVadopter said:
Since this is an SUV and not a passenger car, I can only suspect that Nissan could be concerned that owners will drive this car in less than ideal conditions where they would never attempt to drive a Leaf. That said driving in snow and ice with a fully employed e-pedal could have catastrophic results. I watched a Rivian r1t video review with a well seasoned driver Kyle Connor at the wheel (Out of Spec reviews) as he was going downhill in the snow and he hadn’t considered turning off full regen. Needless to say that scenario completely caught him off guard as he quickly realized he needed accelerate to recover after heading into a slide. Not sure if all drivers would react to accelerate down hill when in a slide as that move may be counterintuitive for many drivers.

I'm not following your logic. The only difference between the Leaf e-Pedal and the creepy Ariya e-Pedal is you need to apply the brake to actually stop. Having e-Pedal engaged doesn't stop you from accelerating in any situation.

EarlyEVadopter

· #15 · Apr 21, 2022

e-pedal driving characteristics are much aligned to a diesel motor decompression brake. When engaged neither application prevents a driver from accelerating. However both systems are designed to enhance deceleration, and when applied on snow or ice, the system design could lock up the drive wheels as you decelerate. (I’ve actually white knucked that experience on ice with my DP motorhome) I would hope that ABS and/or stability control would assist an Ariya driver in this scenario. In any case a driver may quickly realize that have to make an emergency maneuver to either accelerate slightly (temporarily disengaging e-pedal) or turn off the e-pedal switch altogether in order to recover from the slide that e-pedal may have created. Obviously the best solution when driving on these type of road conditions would be to remember to switch off e-pedal.
I also added a post yesterday that stated I hoped Nissan engineering had considered and incorporated poor road condition driving in the design of Ariyas e-pedal.

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KVR

· #16 · May 16, 2022

ghengeveld said:
Yeah, stop and hold would be the least I expect, even if you have to manually brake to engage it. I really don't like continuously pressing on the brake while waiting for a traffic light.

Greetings, After watching my user reviews videos from Japan, I have noticed that there is a dedicated "Auto Hold" press button switch. The reviewer did mention that the stop and hold function works well.

DJP

· #17 · May 16, 2022

KVR said:
Greetings, After watching my user reviews videos from Japan, I have noticed that there is a dedicated "Auto Hold" press button switch. The reviewer did mention that the stop and hold function works well.

That's interesting! I've been trying to find reviews from Japan without success. Can you please post links to them.

KVR

· #18 · May 16, 2022

DJP said:
That's interesting! I've been trying to find reviews from Japan without success. Can you please post links to them.

Between 12 and 13 minutes.

KVR

· #19 · May 16, 2022

DJP said:
That's interesting! I've been trying to find reviews from Japan without success. Can you please post links to them.

Between 2 and 3 minutes.

petulantbeard

· #20 · May 16, 2022

Thank you @KVR I appreciate it! I've watched a bunch of the Japanese reviews but I always forget there's auto translate now in the closed captions and I totally missed these comments about brake hold (as well as the hdmi port in the glove box?!). The first video hinted that the settings may change in the future or be subject to finer adjustments so I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer for reviews on production models.

I also read in an article (if I find it I will link) that the creep was left in to keep drivers alert. Not saying I agree with the rationale, only that it was another reason given.

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