[Hank]

Congrats on your decision! Seems like it meets your need well!

Curb rash: I consider that so much a problem I'm already looking for answers. My wife cuts corner constantly. Woman has no spacial awareness at all.

Ariya has parking assist. I wonder if it can do parallel parking as well, or just be able to park in the parking lot stall with white paint lines as the guide…?

 

[voxel]

Finally, some more balance I've got running around in the back of my mind:

Tesla Concerns:

1. Questionable rep for repair times.
2. Very limited 3rd party repair/service options and/or repair parts,
3. Poor rear visibility
4. Pool blind spot alert (personal preference, but I would buy av aftermarket mirror that was larger and included the alert quickly).
5. Curb Rash (I forgot to look at the Ariya's rims).
6. Y, even with the new comfort suspension, is still stiff. However, it's better sorted than the Ariya's, and I expect to see a better ride on 19's and be able to drop someair pressure. How much? Tough call. These are heavy vehicles!

On the other hand they're in the area of a million of the things delivered already, so it's pretty well debugged. Nor do I question it's market success, or it's resale value

Ariya:

1. I don't question 3rd party service, but parts access? I suspect that's going to be a nightmare for a year or more, basically mirroring the Tesla #1 & #2 problem.
2. First year product, with all that implies. (Looking at you Toyota BZ4X)
3. Resale value? Hard to know, but it won't match Tesla.
4. Charge Speed (stock) on L2.
5. Did I mention I don't trust Nissan anymore?
6. Range: I have a daughter who lives in KC MO. An Ariya cannot get there from here, and there is not enough charging to get there. Or even close. Tesla? It doesn't have the range either, but it has enough range to make it to a Tesla supercharger station, and do so in the dead of winter at 78mph.

My point is this:
None of these are perfect, and each of us will make different decisions. I didn't write these posts to come off as bashing the Ariya, or challenge those of you that love the thing. I hoped to present what I saw to help others who, like me, have to make expensive decisions without as much fact as we'd like. Let me be real: Had Elon not dropped the price of the "Y" I'd have never looked hard at one and would be balancing the Ariya against the coming CX-90. He did, and that has seriously affected the market. Eg: I noted an article that stated Tesla has booked 12 billion dollars in sales as a result.

My best to all,
-d

Teslas auto detect errors and ping mothership. My only issue was how busy the service center was so all appointments were 2-3 weeks out. Tesla is ran by robots so don’t expect to be able contact a live person. It’s all via the app.

As for Ford, BMW, VW, etc dealers… I don’t trust their techs. I would only bring my Mach-E to one specific dealer as the others are incompetent. I’ve met my share of Leaf owners bitch about Nissan dealers in Florida. Only one in central Florida is capable of a battery replacement out of a dozen. My ID.4 glitched and shutdown in the middle of the road in my first week of ownership and my VW dealer only had a part time EV tech and that person could not determine the source of the problem… so bye bye the ID.4 went. Folks claim the dealership model is a positive for an EV but that’s only true if they are competent which many are not.

As for curb rash… stick with the 19s. Without USS you will be curbing your Y a lot lol.

The 2023 Y will have a better ride quality than the Ariya but it’s not great. I have higher standards now so others might think it is amazing.

 

[Retired Dog]

Man, I really want to buy the Platinum+ AWD that I ordered in November 2021. But with the MYLR now effectively $9,000 less expensive, and it will arrive on Feb 18th (instead of who knows when, likely June or later) -- I'm likely going to buy the Tesla I have on order.

We ordered our MY right away after the price cuts and was able to pick it up in a few days from existing inventory. Had 6 miles on the odo. Very happy with it!

Decided to keep our existing Ariya reservation until it is delivered. May go with both if I really like the Ariya!🙂

 

[dafish]

Nissan may yet address pricing. Just minutes ago Ford announced price cuts on the Mach-E....

 

[voxel]

Nissan may yet address pricing. Just minutes ago Ford announced price cuts on the Mach-E....

Which is just the reversal of the insane 2022 to 2023 MME price increase. Basically Mach-E prices are more or less back to 2022 levels.

 

[dafish]

Not even that. I had a Mach-E order in my Ford sales managers hands waiting on 2023 order bank release. You know it's bad when the SM calls you and saying "yea, I didn't expect this kind of price increase. I can help a little, but wow. You sure you want me to get you one?" I dropped it. Did you know ford initially considered the car disposable?

Ford Expects Mustang Mach-E Residual Values To Fall Badly (motorbiscuit.com)

 

[Hank]

Nissan may yet address pricing. Just minutes ago Ford announced price cuts on the Mach-E....

I sure hope Nissan will not reduce the price. If anything, remove the silly carpeted floor mats and the kick plates from mfgr add on.

Here’s the full news on Mach E. It’s nothingburger because the deep price cut only applies to high end GT trim.

Ford cuts prices on electric Mustang Mach-E, following Tesla's lead

Ford said Monday it will lower the price of the Mach-E, which is comparable to Tesla's Model Y, by an average of about $4,500, depending on the model.

www.cnbc.com

 

[voxel]

I sure hope Nissan will not reduce the price. If anything, remove the silly carpeted floor mats and the kick plates from mfgr add on.

Here’s the full news on Mach E. It’s nothingburger because the deep price cut only applies to high end GT trim.

Ford cuts prices on electric Mustang Mach-E, following Tesla's lead

Ford said Monday it will lower the price of the Mach-E, which is comparable to Tesla's Model Y, by an average of about $4,500, depending on the model.

www.cnbc.com

It's all trims

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/01/30/ford-to-significantly-increase-production-of-mustang-mach-e-in-2.html

 

[Nismantx]

Well, I've seen and driven one now. Thoughts:

Good:

1. The HUD is fantastic. I wasn't in a super sunny day though, so...
2. The dashboard layout is more conventional looking.
3. The FWD version delivers more than acceptable performance in a "family crossover" role, and allows for a potential price point advantage I suspect it's going to need.
4. Blind sport alerts in the mirrors. Good, good.
5. I think I could get a spare tire of some kind in the rear storage area.
6. I don't feel like I'm going to get "Tesle'd for things like homelink, console organization, a sunroof cover, etc...

Things Not So Good:

1. 2nd row better thought of for women and children.
   1. Headroom is poor. I'm 6'1" and can't sit there. Pano sunroof runs into my head.
   2. 2nd row foot room is very poor. The front seat frame needs to be widened a bunch and raised too.
   3. The 2nd row back doesn't recline (that I could find anyway).
   4. 2nd row legroom is shorter, by several inches, vs the Y. I got 2.75" less legroom with front seats adjusted to my comfort.
2. Ride is poor. The springs are too short, and as a consequence too stiff, while the valving is too loose in rebound. Tire air pressure stipulated hurts ride too. I felt it was as stiff as a "YLR" on 20's, and with worse manners on poor roadways. I suspect a MYLR on 19's will beat it for ride quality.
3. Range, likely the efficiency of the wheel motor, is well below the MYLR. The 4680 Model Y "standard", now coming available, is a closer range comparison.
4. Why does it have to look like a guppy in the front since it has no frunk?
5. I measured 2" less width between the doors in the second row. Those inches are precious when trying to get three across.
6. Cabin lighting, particularly in back, is poor. Tesla may be equally poor here! I didn't notice it, but that's not conclusive.

YMMV:

1. After working to adjust settings w/the Ariya I suddenly found the Y's touchscreen to better suit my definition of intuitive and friendly.
2. It will be a cold day in help when I forgive Nissan for this lousy experience, or my dealer, but I'm told Tesla can be a real PITA sometimes too, so..
3. Self Driving: If you want to consider either of them viable its certainly cheaper on the Nissan. Useful?
4. Towing: If you care Ariya, being rated at 1,500lbs, can't do much than tow a bike rack. On the Y you could take a 2,000lb sxs, load it on a 1000lb trailer, and you've still got 500lbs for a spare dirtbike, coolers and fuel, or etc... (wait, let me laugh some more at the guys that think the Ariya is a proper SUV).

Conclusion:
The Evolve + trim in FWD offers, in my opinion, the best Ariya story against a Model Y. That said the Model Y in the "standard" build (4680) trim is $51k and includes AWD, roughly equal range, roughly equal features, a much better sound system, and a myriad of "comes with a Tesla" advantages. The niche Ariya can fill now is for a younger family looking for a compact EV crossover at a lower price. Personally, I now think the Evolve + needs to be $3-4k less expensive. Fix the suspension and the premium Ariya could also offer a luxury level the "Y" doesn't have.

TBD:
Tax credits. If, as I suspect, Tesla is able to comply for at least $3,500 in tax credit post March then Ariya has a real problem.

My decision:
I'm not cancelling the Ariya until I get a MYLR delivered and know my tax situation, but that's only because I'm still evaluating my "binding contract" tax credit w/Nissan. Without a tax credit the Ariya feels, now that I've driven and seen it, like an under-dog.

I am 6.5 I have like good 4-5 inches above my head in 2nd row and about 4 inches leg room in front of knee.

 

[Retired Dog]

Maybe my E-Force will have a lower MSRP when it’s available this summer!

 

[Hank]

It's all trims

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/01/30/ford-to-significantly-increase-production-of-mustang-mach-e-in-2.html

View attachment 1158

Nissan just need to remove premium paint charge, carpeted floor mats, and kick plates to bring MSRP in line with the competition.

 

[ab13]

Apparently Nissan has said there is limited shipments to the US this year. So probably that won't do anything for the pricing.

 

[dafish]

Even if I don't take mine I hope its successful for you guys. Towards that leaving the price where it is seems suicidal to me. I read Tesla delivered over 400,000 units last quarter (globally, I'm sure) and Austin is barely in production. I expect 200,000 units a month yet this year. Economy's of scale are showing. I don't think Ford has economics on their side and this reduction is all they can do. Not sure they care. Heck, I think Tesla just put a fork in Rivian for that matter.

Mind you I'm a big PHEV fan, particularly for trucks, and I'm actually hoping Toyota gives me a good 1/2 ton PHEV. Something like the Ford Ranger PHEV coming in 2025 ( I hope). Tesla has no intention of competing in the PHEV space, and truck guys will be all over a good PHEV.

 

[GreginAZ22]

Even if I don't take mine I hope its successful for you guys. Towards that leaving the price where it is seems suicidal to me. I read Tesla delivered over 400,000 units last quarter (globally, I'm sure) and Austin is barely in production. I expect 200,000 units a month yet this year. Economy's of scale are showing. I don't think Ford has economics on their side and this reduction is all they can do. Not sure they care. Heck, I think Tesla just put a fork in Rivian for that matter.

Mind you I'm a big PHEV fan, particularly for trucks, and I'm actually hoping Toyota gives me a good 1/2 ton PHEV. Something like the Ford Ranger PHEV coming in 2025 ( I hope). Tesla has no intention of competing in the PHEV space, and truck guys will be all over a good PHEV.

Tesla sold about 1.3 million vehicles globally in 2022, about 500,000 in the United States

 

[Hank]

Even if I don't take mine I hope its successful for you guys. Towards that leaving the price where it is seems suicidal to me. I read Tesla delivered over 400,000 units last quarter (globally, I'm sure) and Austin is barely in production. I expect 200,000 units a month yet this year. Economy's of scale are showing. I don't think Ford has economics on their side and this reduction is all they can do. Not sure they care. Heck, I think Tesla just put a fork in Rivian for that matter.

Mind you I'm a big PHEV fan, particularly for trucks, and I'm actually hoping Toyota gives me a good 1/2 ton PHEV. Something like the Ford Ranger PHEV coming in 2025 ( I hope). Tesla has no intention of competing in the PHEV space, and truck guys will be all over a good PHEV.

I follow the stock market fairly closely and as well as TSLA stock.

The difference between MachE price cuts and Tesla price cuts is that Ford is cutting prices on their MachEs while ramping up production. Whereas with Tesla, they are cutting prices while cutting production especially in China.

Tesla had projected growth of 50% for the foreseeable periods. We already know this isn’t the case. Demand fell off the cliff. They were only barely getting 405K units sold in Q4 because they heavily incentivized the Chinese buyers with free car insurance and deep price cutting. In the US, Tesla did the same except rather than giving away free car insurance, they were giving out free charging credits.. This game is not sustainable.

Ultimately, Tesla 2 new gigafactories in Austin and Berlin will be a huge sunk cost if somehow volume does not pick up. That’s what it’s all come down to. Tesla does not want a war with Ford and GM. They have hugely profitable truck lines to keep them afloat whereasTesla only has M3 and MY.

 

[EarlyEVadopter]

Even if I don't take mine I hope its successful for you guys. Towards that leaving the price where it is seems suicidal to me. I read Tesla delivered over 400,000 units last quarter (globally, I'm sure) and Austin is barely in production. I expect 200,000 units a month yet this year. Economy's of scale are showing. I don't think Ford has economics on their side and this reduction is all they can do. Not sure they care. Heck, I think Tesla just put a fork in Rivian for that matter.

Mind you I'm a big PHEV fan, particularly for trucks, and I'm actually hoping Toyota gives me a good 1/2 ton PHEV. Something like the Ford Ranger PHEV coming in 2025 ( I hope). Tesla has no intention of competing in the PHEV space, and truck guys will be all over a good PHEV.

I used to be a fan of PHEV’s as well until I read a couple of interesting articles regarding the Moose Test. Seems few (if any) PHEV are able to pass the Moose Test. Even the best selling RAV 4 prime fails miserably. Seems the adapted battery placement combined with the added weight makes the already vulnerable top heavy trucks and SUV’s even more at risk. So if you do end up closing a deal on your perfect Toyota or Ford PHEV pickup, watch out for Bullwinkle!

 

[Hank]

Tesla sold about 1.3 million vehicles globally in 2022, about 500,000 in the United States

yes, those numbers were based on lots of free money like PPP1, PPP2, crazy hyped up cryptos, very high gasoline price, and very very low interest rates while high tech companies were hiring like gangbusters. Where are all those now?

 

[GreginAZ22]

yes, those numbers were based on lots of free money like PPP1, PPP2, crazy hyped up cryptos, very high gasoline price, and very very low interest rates while high tech companies were hiring like gangbusters. Where are all those now?

I am willing to bet that Tesla production continues to grow. I wqould be surpirsed if they sell less than 1.6 million vehicles globally and 650,000 domesatically this year.

 

[Hank]

I am willing to bet that Tesla production continues to grow. I wqould be surpirsed if they sell less than 1.6 million vehicles globally and 650,000

I am willing to bet that Tesla production continues to grow. I wqould be surpirsed if they sell less than 1.6 million vehicles globally and 650,000 domesatically this year.

There's a huge difference between "production units" vs "sales units". I assume you are referring to sales units. Thus far, TSLA projected 1.8M for 2023. That's far cry from 2M units with 50% growth they had promised in 2021.

BYD is taking market share in China faster than expected while everyone else in the US just need to take market share from Tesla on a "cumulative basis."

Whether Tesla can sell 1.6M depends on whether they decide to cut prices deeper to move metals, or offer freebies like free charging to new buyers . Whatever they do, they need to keep their 2 new gigafactories at or near full capacity.

 

[Hank]

I am willing to bet that Tesla production continues to grow. I wqould be surpirsed if they sell less than 1.6 million vehicles globally and 650,000 domesatically this year.

Here's a photo taken just now at 1:35pst today.

If MY and M3 are selling like hotcakes, why isn't their parking half empty by Monday morning? You would think customers came in droves to pick up their Teslas over the weekend when it was sunny and warm.. However, this isn't the case...