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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How does the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 really effect us? I bought a Loaded Leaf plus the first day my dealer had one, in 2019 and was very happy to get the $7500 from the feds at tax time. Like most of us I have been waiting for the Ariya for a long time and ordered my Platinum+ E4orce in white pearl with Black Diamond the day the orders opened.

I understand that my car won't come in this year and that when it does, the tax benefits in the new law won't apply to my car. My question is when the new law takes effect does that negate the old law? Or would we still be able to claim the $7500 until Nissan reaches the 200,000 car cap?

jay streets
 

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From what I understand if you have a preorder that constitutes a legally binding contract (i.e.: the dealer and Nissan are bound to offer it to you for sale first even though you can refuse and get your $500 refunded). Given there is a contract for sale in place before the Inflation Reduction Act becomes law then the current wording in the "Transition Rule" is that you would be able to claim the $7500 tax credit as if you purchased the car on the day you entered that contract (providing you ordered the car in 2022 -- not 2021).

Because the law (in its current form, before the House of Representatives modifies it) treats the car as if it went into service on the date you entered that contract.

I am NOT a tax attorney or accountant, so research for yourself, but this is how I read it and understood it after doing some research.

That said, the Inflation Reduction Act is not yet law and could be amended by the House before they vote on it. Then the House and the Senate will have to reconcile any changes the House makes.

Personally, I think there are few things in that law that are going to be red flags for the House of Representatives. Of course I could be wrong, because that would assume that Congress is smart:

1. The way it is written now, it will likely stifle electric car sales which would hurt the economy and would hurt the Democrats in the fall mid-term elections. The Democrats control the House and they will probably not want to do that. They will likely have to allow more of a grace period for U.S. manufacturing and U.S. battery mineral and component sourcing -- maybe enforcing those requirements at the start of 2023 or by August 2023 (for the 2024 model-year vehicles), but not enforcing for purchases prior to that.

2. The $80K cap on SUV's will likely need to define what an SUV is. Are the Mach-E, Ariya, EV6, ID.4 or Model Y considered to be SUV's? Where does wagon/crossover end and SUV begin? I think Kia calls the Niro an SUV.

3. The MSRP price caps for qualification likely need some annual inflation adjustment if this law is even going to make sense in 2025 or beyond. I doubt you can hold prices under those levels for the next 3 years to qualify for the tax credit. You don't want to match the social security cost-of-living-adjustment (COLA) each year since this law is suppose to encourage lower pricing, but you gotta do something -- like scale at 50% of COLA . For that matter, the tax credit should also scale at 50% COLA to keep encouraging people to buy electric.

4. If it is not spelled out already, allowing one tax credit every 3 years is fine for a single file -- but joint filers should be allowed 2 tax credits every three years since they will likely buy 2 cars. I like this provision since it prevents people from buying cars, taking the tax credit and then flipping the car at MSRP (or more) and playing on the short supply -- but you have to be reasonable when 2 people are being considered. This may already be in there and I have not read the full text of the bill, but nobody has reported on it.
 

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How does the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 really effect us? I bought a Loaded Leaf plus the first day my dealer had one, in 2019 and was very happy to get the $7500 from the feds at tax time. Like most of us I have been waiting for the Ariya for a long time and ordered my Platinum+ E4orce in white pearl with Black Diamond the day the orders opened.

I understand that my car won't come in this year and that when it does, the tax benefits in the new law won't apply to my car. My question is when the new law takes effect does that negate the old law? Or would we still be able to claim the $7500 until Nissan reaches the 200,000 car cap?

jay streets
1) the Ariya will qualify for the existing rebate program provided you have a "binding, written contract" with your dealer before the "date of enactment" which is the day the president signs the bill into law. The House is expected to vote on the bill this Friday so you can expect Biden to sign the bill within a week from that date.

If you don't have a "binding, written contract" before Biden signs, then you'll be out of luck. And it's necessary to have a VIN to have a binding contract and those aren't available from Nissan at this time.
I'm in the same quandary as you. It's very doubtful if I'll go through with the purchase without the EV credit.
 

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1) the Ariya will qualify for the existing rebate program provided you have a "binding, written contract" with your dealer before the "date of enactment" which is the day the president signs the bill into law. The House is expected to vote on the bill this Friday so you can expect Biden to sign the bill within a week from that date.

If you don't have a "binding, written contract" before Biden signs, then you'll be out of luck. And it's necessary to have a VIN to have a binding contract and those aren't available from Nissan at this time.
I'm in the same quandary as you. It's very doubtful if I'll go through with the purchase without the EV credit.
Unless my reservation is converted to a "binding written contract" by Nissan in the next few days (Note, Fisker is doing that for their reservation holders), I will probably not go through with the purchase.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
And I just spoke with my dealer, Hayward Nissan, they committed that they will not be charging over MSRP for anyone who is ordered and car and Completes the completes the purchase with the same name. I asked about converting my order to a binding written contract and they said there’s no way to do that until they have a Vin number.
I’m very disappointed that I probably won’t be able to get the $7500 federal tax break but that’s not gonna keep me from going forward with the Ariya I’ve loved my life and I look forward to moving up

jay streets
 

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And I just spoke with my dealer, Hayward Nissan, they committed that they will not be charging over MSRP for anyone who is ordered and car and Completes the completes the purchase with the same name. I asked about converting my order to a binding written contract and they said there’s no way to do that until they have a Vin number.
I’m very disappointed that I probably won’t be able to get the $7500 federal tax break but that’s not gonna keep me from going forward with the Ariya I’ve loved my life and I look forward to moving up

jay streets
Jay, if the IRA isn't amended and the Ariya is disqualified, along with so many other EV's, that will be a disgrace. We hear the climate freaks ramble incessantly about how we need to save the planet immediately or else we're doomed, yet this law may actually postpone tens of thousands of EV purchases, not to mention sticking a knife into so many car manufacturers backs.
Thanks for relaying your dealer experience.
 

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Jay, if the IRA isn't amended and the Ariya is disqualified, along with so many other EV's, that will be a disgrace. We hear the climate freaks ramble incessantly about how we need to save the planet immediately or else we're doomed, yet this law may actually postpone tens of thousands of EV purchases, not to mention sticking a knife into so many car manufacturers backs.
Thanks for relaying your dealer experience.
Prediction: The House will not modify the bill in any significant way (aside from perhaps spelling and grammar errors). Dems don't want to risk Manchin refusing to vote for it again if it has to go through reconciliation.

The bill is what it is because of Manchin - it was the only way to get his vote and still have an EV credit of some sort in there. Manchin has made it very clear that he has no interest in doing anything about climate change.
 

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We hear the climate freaks ramble incessantly about how we need to save the planet immediately or else we're doomed, yet this law may actually postpone tens of thousands of EV purchases, not to mention sticking a knife into so many car manufacturers backs.
Senator Manchin is in no way a "climate freak."
 

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1) the Ariya will qualify for the existing rebate program provided you have a "binding, written contract" with your dealer before the "date of enactment" which is the day the president signs the bill into law. The House is expected to vote on the bill this Friday so you can expect Biden to sign the bill within a week from that date.

If you don't have a "binding, written contract" before Biden signs, then you'll be out of luck. And it's necessary to have a VIN to have a binding contract and those aren't available from Nissan at this time.
I'm in the same quandary as you. It's very doubtful if I'll go through with the purchase without the EV credit.
That is not true. The enforcement of anything in the IRA only goes into effect January 1 2023. NOT the day Biden sign sit. That’s not how it works.
 

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That is not true. The enforcement of anything in the IRA only goes into effect January 1 2023. NOT the day Biden sign sit. That’s not how it works.
Believe what you want. I've read the ICA. The date of enactment is the day it's signed by the President. On that day, the IRA replaces the current EV credit scheme with the only exception being the "transition rule."
If you walk into your Nissan dealer in Nov. and buy an Ariya... you'll get a truckload of squat when you file your taxes.
Have a nice day.
 

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Believe what you want. I've read the ICA. The date of enactment is the day it's signed by the President. On that day, the IRA replaces the current EV credit scheme with the only exception being the "transition rule."
If you walk into your Nissan dealer in Nov. and buy an Ariya... you'll get a truckload of squat when you file your taxes.
Have a nice day.
Agreed, that's not how I've interpreted what I've read in the IRA, and it's not how pretty much the entire rest of the EV world (beyond Nissan) has intepreted this situation. And most importantly it's not how Nissan corporate has interpreted the IRA, given my conversation with a very clearly informed sales manager at what is now my 'new' Nissan dealer here in the PDX area. Of course maybe we're wrong, but right now, the assumption is the EV Tax Credit criteria starts when the IRA is signed into law by the president. And that could be tomorrow, the weekend, or early next week.

(Full disclosure, I'm not a tax attorney or EV law/policy expert, so I could be wrong)
 

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Agreed, that's not how I've interpreted what I've read in the IRA, and it's not how pretty much the entire rest of the EV world (beyond Nissan) has intepreted this situation. And most importantly it's not how Nissan corporate has interpreted the IRA, given my conversation with a very clearly informed sales manager at what is now my 'new' Nissan dealer here in the PDX area. Of course maybe we're wrong, but right now, the assumption is the EV Tax Credit criteria starts when the IRA is signed into law by the president. And that could be tomorrow, the weekend, or early next week.

(Full disclosure, I'm not a tax attorney or EV law/policy expert, so I could be wrong)
Right with one caveat: there is a "transition rule" that allows a customer with a binding, written contract before the president signs the bill to get the existing tax credit.
 

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Does anyone have a binding written contract from Nissan?
@EarlyEVadopter has reported that Bruce Titus Nissan provided him a signed Vehicle Buyers Order. That was good info and I used that info today when I finally found a Nissan dealership in my area that was on top of this situation. They told me that the VIN is the sticking point, which other dealers also mentioned. But they also told me that they are completely aware of the details, and Nissan corporate is trying immediately to craft what their lawyers believe will be a document that will satisfy the new EV tax credit criteria, and will extend this to pre-order holds ASAP. They said to expect this possibly this weekend, or next week. I believe that the dealership is being honest and is passing on what they learned today from their internal conversations with Nissan corporate. If this doesn't end up happening, then I believe it will be Nissan's issue, not the dealerships.

So to summarize, I have no heard of anyone on this forum getting what I would expect to be a satisfactory document from any dealership. This doesn't yet exist, but is being fast-tracked by Nissan. My dealership said they will alert me when it is available, and they are setting up for digital signing to make this as quick and easy as possible.
 

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@EarlyEVadopter has reported that Bruce Titus Nissan provided him a signed Vehicle Buyers Order. That was good info and I used that info today when I finally found a Nissan dealership in my area that was on top of this situation. They told me that the VIN is the sticking point, which other dealers also mentioned. But they also told me that they are completely aware of the details, and Nissan corporate is trying immediately to craft what their lawyers believe will be a document that will satisfy the new EV tax credit criteria, and will extend this to pre-order holds ASAP. They said to expect this possibly this weekend, or next week. I believe that the dealership is being honest and is passing on what they learned today from their internal conversations with Nissan corporate. If this doesn't end up happening, then I believe it will be Nissan's issue, not the dealerships.

So to summarize, I have no heard of anyone on this forum getting what I would expect to be a satisfactory document from any dealership. This doesn't yet exist, but is being fast-tracked by Nissan. My dealership said they will alert me when it is available, and they are setting up for digital signing to make this as quick and easy as possible.
Great Intel! Thank you!
 
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